Ep 20 - Documenting Life with Danny Gregory
In this episode of the SneakyArt Podcast, I speak with Danny Gregory - author, adman, speaker, artist, podcaster and all-around creative person. Danny has led a remarkable life, growing up in various parts of the world, working different jobs, and pursuing creativity in various forms. I speak to him about his journey to become a deliberate artist, and what it means to pursue self-expression inside a sketchbook. With reference to the many books he has authored, I pick his brain about what it means to "draw without talent", to "shut your inner critic", and to find beauty in "everyday matters". I learn from the conversation that every day matters, even when it's filled with just everyday matters.
Links
Catch links to Danny's work and buy his books from his website - www.dannygregory.com.
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to the SneakyArt Podcast. I'm your host, Nishant Jain. This is a show where I speak with artists who draw or paint their worlds from observation. In this episode, I am speaking with Danny Gregory, who is - brace yourselves - a creative director, adman, author, speaker, artist, podcaster, filmmaker, and teacher. To put it simply, in his own words he is a creative guy who makes all sorts of things. So in some ways this was a challenging conversation to have. Where should I begin? Where should I go? But in other ways it was quite easy, because Danny had wonderful answers to any question I had for him.
I was introduced to Danny and his work by previous guests on the podcast. You might recall Shari, Suhita and Roisin have spoken about his wonderful book - Everyday Matters. That's when I became curious to learn more about Danny Gregory, and I found his impressive list of achievements, the books, the education start-up, and his podcast - art for all. What I learned from this conversation was the incredible journey of his personal life, and the different influences he picked up from growing up in various parts of the world. I resonated with a lot of things we spoke about, and you may be able to also tell that, because I share more of myself in this conversation than I've done previously on the show.
The title for this episode comes from how Danny appears to use his art practice. We talk about the future of the creator economy as independent artists, the importance of following one's own compass, especially in a social media driven landscape, and what is really the point of a sketchbook. Can the sketchbook be an end in itself, instead of being a means to some other end? Can our art be a document of our lives? If you've wondered about these things before, I hope you find some good answers in this episode.
I want to give a shout-out to the listeners and members who recently supported my work. Thank you Becky, Ruth, Melanie, Vinayakam, Anne, Mark, Russ, Sanket, Santosh, Dinah, Mark, Etienne, Kar, Debra, Emma, Marta, Ellen, Blake, Marta, Megan and Ashley. Also a special shoutout to Michele and to Jacqui, for also buying me coffee this month.
If you enjoy this show, it's really easy to support it and keep it going. All you have to do is buy me a cup of coffee. Find the link to my BuyMeACoffee page in the shownotes.
Coming back to today's episode... As I went over our conversation a second and third time this week while editing, a hundred new questions came to mind. In that sense, the conversation is not complete. But I ask myself, how could I even expect it to be complete? How can any first conversation be ... complete? I hope to speak with Danny again in the near future, and learn more things from him. But if there's a single takeaway from this conversation, it's that everyday matters, even if it's filled with just everyday matters.
04:00 Nishant asks about where Danny picked up which influences in his early life, living in different countries.
The importance of reading, and wanting to write books of the world. Books with illustrations, such as those by travelers, or even those written for children. When Danny started to draw, he didn't think of himself as an artist associated with galleries or museums. He wanted to explore the sketchbook itself as the end product. Nishant talks about how reading in early life makes you believe in the power of words, and use it in both attack and defense.
Danny shares how he got into the advertising business, waiting for a bigger idea to strike him. Advertising became a way to tell many different stories, work in different parts of creative projects. Nishant asks if working in advertising makes you a better writer, in terms of craft, and understanding the audience.
They discuss the idea of 'likes' as a metric for artistic value. Nishant shares his journey of being an independent writer, cartoonist, artist online. And how the ecosystem has changed in the past 2 decades.
But should an artist be only self-motivated? Is it wrong to be motivated by the love and attention of others? Danny talks about the importance of centering your work around yourself.
Nishant relates from personal experience how herd-following the algorithm incentivizes us to substitute our inner compass for an exterior locus of identity/self-worth.
"The Pavlovian example is correct, because we're replacing our inner critic - who is important as well as really terrible - with the like button, and our notion of good and bad with what someone else thinks." - Nishant.
This external locus of identity keeps us from trying things, from giving our own selves permission to do things. We now seek permission from others even when we want to do something private.
The double-edged sword of making art in the times of social media and internet.
46:00 The importance of the word 'permission', and the people/institutions we grant the right to give or withdraw permission in our lives.
To Danny, the inner artist is the 7-year old version of us. The one who does not care about posterity or what people think. The one who creates for the joy of creating. It is a time when you are "master of your own universe".
Nishant talks about process-oriented vs goal-oriented behaviour.
They discuss the 1000 True Fans Model. Danny references his latest book "How to Draw without Talent", where he speaks to people who feel inhibited by lack of talent.
The faulty idea that "winning a race" is the only reason for doing something.
"Bad doesn't actually mean anything. Bad means mistakes. And mistakes are lessons." - Danny.
They talk about the importance of embracing mistakes.
66:00 Nishant asks Danny how he came to begin drawing at a difficult time in his life.
Based off Danny's account of processing his new life through art, Nishant references George Butler's Ep 15 quote - "An illustration is biased towards its subject." What does an illustration add that a picture sometimes cannot?
They talk about Egon Schiele's last paintings - one of his partner before her death, and then himself dying 3 days later, both of the Spanish Flu.
Like the philosophy of wabi-sabi, a drawing captures imperfections and the "lived experience", both for the subject and in the artist themselves.
"There's nothing more boring than drawing a supermodel that's been heavily airbrushed... and is perfect. Our drawings like to catch imperfections, catch particularities, like what makes this unique, authentic, this of all things."
They discuss the value of time - the time given to the drawing, and the time given to looking at our subject. Danny talks about how impatience plays into a sketch, and Nishant counters that that too is part of the wabi-sabi of the moment.
Danny talks about drawing with other people, and how that can affect his pace and style. Nishant talks about a couple of instances when his own pace was affected, first without impact and second when it affected his work.
They discuss the various external factors that affect our drawings.
94:00 Nishant talks about Danny's first book - Everyday Matters.
Danny talks about how subject matters have changed in the history of art - from the early days of religious symbolism to the modern era of "everything is important".
Danny talks about how the idea of artificially composing a scene to draw feels inauthentic to him. Talks about his daily tea-cup drawings every morning. Interesting how that is also a consequence of our times, since we are surrounded by composed/artificial scenes.
Why did it take Danny so much time to become a full-time independent creative? Is it a delay he regrets or is the timing correct for his life? They talk about how Danny does multiple things. Nishant asks about what inspires this multi-pronged approach to creativity.
Nishant asks about Sketchbook Skool and Danny's idea of a sketchbook.
Nishant asks about Danny's book "How to Draw without Talent" and they discuss their issues with the problematic word 'talent'.